The coastline of Nova Scotia, or New Scotland, does bring to mind the British Isles, and while being originally a French colony, most of the people there indeed have ancestral backgrounds from Britain. Looking at the majestic banks, beaches, cliffs and deep woods of this area, it seems natural a duo like Ulvesang would pick up their acoustic guitars and capture the atmospheres of the surrounding nature. And this they do in a very skillful and emotional way. With their anti-fascistic philosophy of life, extremely adept playing, and two wonderful albums currently in their discography, the duo certainly stand out from the gray mass of numerous much more unoriginal so-called neofolk artist. I had a great pleasure to ask a few questions from Ana Dujaković:
Hello Ana, and how are you doing on this day of November 2021? Has the global warming visibly effected the weather over there, such as it certainly has here in southern Finland?
Yes, it has. Nova Scotian winters would often begin in November where we could get very cold temperatures and snow. Sometimes even in October. Nowadays, October can be quite warm, and we have rain well into December. Sometimes we don’t even have snow for the holidays, and it doesn’t fall until January! This is sadly the new normal. Last year, we couldn’t even walk on the frozen lakes to have fun and explore the woods because the ice was too thin, even in February which tends to be our coldest month. It is very concerning for our future. We worry about how it will impact the local flora and fauna. An example is that we have an insect pest called the pine beetle and because winters are not cold enough they tend to not die, and destroy many trees in the end. We also tend to have more ticks now that survive the milder winter temperatures and spread diseases like Lyme, which are on the rise.
Up to this point, when I have personally pictured Canadian anti-fascistic music (especially of the more extreme and underground variation), I have thought mostly of British Columbia, which is on the opposite side of the continent from you. How about your area in this regard, do you feel there is a an equal amount of similar mentality, or do you see any major differences between the two opposite geographical sides of Canada?
There is definitely, from what we have seen, a growth of both far-right and anti-fascist or far-left people, groups, and projects across Canada. I think the issues overlap enough that antifascist musicians overall are similar (fighting against injustice in the forms of bigotry, classism, etc.) but some people have different philosophical ideologies.
We don’t ascribe to just one type of thinking and we try to have nuanced positions as much as we can, and challenge our own perspectives and potential biases.
Although the music of Ulvesang is of acoustic nature, and labeled usually as a part of the neofolk genre, I have a feeling most of your listeners also share a taste for styles like black metal. What kind of music did you grew up with, and when and how were you exposed to the sounds of the underground?
We are 32 and 37 years old and so we originally got into metal and neofolk music around our teenage years, whether the band/artist was problematic or not because we were just discovering music at that time. For black metal, we enjoyed a lot of the classic artists that are well known in the genre (Darkthrone, Mayhem, early Ulver, Gorgoroth, Emperor, etc.) and for dark folk / neofolk, popular artists like Empyrium, Nebelung, Of the Wand and the Moon, Tenhi, Nature and Organization, Current 93, etc. We don’t have a particular reason except for liking the music. We listen to a wide range of sounds now, metal and folk music included.
Neofolk has been traditionally parallelized with far-right ideologies, and a certain glorifying of the pagan European past, which is unfortunate at times and completely justified in most cases. However, you are part of the anti-fascist neofolk or music scene in general. Regarding where you stand on social matters, have you experienced a great difference in the amount of negative feedback compared to the positive, or are people interested in Ulvesang mostly because of the amazing music, in your opinion?
Probably all of the above. Most people just enjoy the music, as a lot of people typically do with most artists. We have received a lot of backlash for many progressive posts or views we might make on social media from said traditional alt-right fans of the genre, but we have also had a ton of support from fans who are glad we are not taking that typical route of the apolitical or alt-right / neo-nazis. We love paganism too, and we are sad that it has unfortunately been co-opted by sick psychopaths of the past, and current hateful people of today. But there is a movement we support of heathens taking these symbols back and taking the power away from those white supremacists. Our debut album artwork has them featured and we hope more bands are willing to do this so that in the future, it can be reclaimed for a good message rather than a bad one.
The music of Ulvesang has been compared to the classic "Kveldssanger" album by Ulver, and in my personal opinion your music is indeed a kind of a more complex version of that album when it comes to the picking parts, mixed with the more open string-playing popular in so-called neofolk. I remember in the mid-nineties black metal culture such acoustic albums were an anomaly, thus becoming classics of course, but this is certainly not the case in this day and age. Do you see this kind of music growing even more in popularity?
Yes, we were definitely influenced by them but at the same time we feel because we have “ULV” in our name, people will sometimes jump to Ulver only without realizing that a lot of our riffs also come from traditional neofolk and dark folk bands, and from the spirit of other black metal acts. Yes, you’re right, it was definitely odd to hear bands associated with the genre not be plugged into an amp with distortion, or have a mix of heavy and symphonic sounds. That Ulver album DID make a big difference there for it’s time as well as bands later on such as Agalloch for example who were more popular to a wider audience who wanted something less heavy too. Maybe people in “black metal” spheres maybe realized that something can be just as dark, somber, misanthropic and angry without having to be traditionally “heavy” in the metal way. I think that’s why we grew fond of the other bands who took that approach, it was something perhaps less obvious but still an impacting message. And it was a good fit for other listening moods. We definitely see more people enjoying both sounds nowadays openly, I think the internet and social media have helped with exposure.
So far you have released two full-length albums, namely "Ulvesang" and "The Hunt". What are the main differences of the albums in your eyes, if there are any?
The Hunt was definitely more active, angry and dark in its intended mood. The debut was indeed that as well but came off “sadder” if that makes sense, more introspective and pretty. The Hunt had faster paced riffs and a brighter tone from steel string guitars whereas the debut featured only traditional classical guitars. We also had the debut album entirely recorded in E Flat tuning, which can sound more melancholy than E standard which the Hunt was. The two album covers are also very different looking.
Your much acclaimed debut album was recently re-released by Throne Records and Realm & Ritual, and has been selling pretty well it seems. Did this come as a surprise, or were you expecting it due to perhaps a great demand and interest people have shown towards it after it was initially released?
We are definitely humbled by anyone who is a fan of our music and willing to help support us financially. We are also grateful that there was, over the years, an expression of interest by people in wanting to acquire the debut album, especially on vinyl. We ran this idea by our previous friends in labels and it worked out that Throne Records and Realm and Ritual were supportive and into the idea. Throne has sold out, and we are hoping Realm and Ritual will soon too. Overall, we have always been surprised we have had the luck we did with writing our music and selling it online. We ultimately did it for ourselves in the sense that we wanted to write music for pure enjoyment and passion, so it’s always a bonus if other people like it too.
What can you tell me of the creative process when it comes to the composition of the songs? Do you for example improvise and jam together, forming songs in that way, or does the other member bring introductory riffs or melodies to the training sessions?
Generally we go, “hey, it’s been a few years since we wrote anything. Do you still want to do this shit?” Haha, and if the answer is yes from both of us, we begin to brainstorm what we want for our sound and atmosphere. Typically we each individually jam, or work on ideas, and then try to bring them together by sharing riffs back and forth, adding to the song as we go. That seems the easiest and most practical way for us to write and record.
How about the recording process? The guitar parts have such flow and symbiosis they feel like been played and recorded simultaneously such as in a live session. Am I on the right track here, or do you use multiple takes and tracks for the guitars?
We actually record everything via direct input, and then record various riffs that we layer on top of one another in the editing process. It’s much cheaper and easier for us this way, and makes it less of a headache and annoyance to correct issues or mistakes too.
As you are clearly skilled in playing the guitar, have you had any formal musical training at some point? Did you learn to play the six strings using an acoustic or an electric instrument?
I have had formal training and Alex learned mostly on his own and from friends. I also learned a lot on my own later on after being in training. I began using an electric initially and then picked up a classical guitar later on, and then acoustic after.
Your deepest influences seem to come from the very nature and atmospheres of Nova Scotia. What can you tell me of your other influences, such as psychological states? Is describing the aesthetics of your area with music actually very close to describing the states of mind of the people living in these surroundings?
We believe it does. Nova Scotia and the rest of the Atlantic provinces (New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland and Labrador) have historically been the poorest provinces in Canada with stagnating economies and a growing number of older people, with many younger people moving away for work. Because we are further east than the mainland of Canada, we also don’t get as much basic stuff here like bands and concerts touring through the area because it is “out of the way” and the population is smaller, so not as much room to make the large ticket sales needed to cover costs. The metropolitan areas in these parts do okay overall, but when you go to the rural areas you see a lot of crushing poverty and no job possibilities. Many people move away, not because they want to but because they must to survive. There are still lots of fishing villages and some farming communities that still make a living the traditional way. We worry for them as fisheries keep collapsing and the future there doesn’t look bright. The topography of these areas are lovely though, with many rivers, lakes, forests, hills, valleys, and ocean everywhere. We get all four seasons too, so you see all the beautiful changes throughout the year. People who do move away tend to miss the “culture” here of the maritimes, which is typically considered more friendly than the rest of Canada. Maritimers (a term for people who live in these 4 Atlantic provinces) have their own identity through these shared difficulties, and can share stories and even laughs about the various struggles.
Nova Scotia was originally colonized by the French, yet later the culture and population consisted of mainly migrants from the British Isles. How visible or audible are the traditions and heritage of these Celtic immigrants in your area? How about the indigenous culture of your area, is it still detectable in your daily life?
There is more focus now, thankfully, on the history of the indigenous people of these areas and how many of their stories have been muted by the settlers and crown / government over time. There is a call to learn more about this history that was purposely erased in the education system here. For example, when we were in school, we were largely not educated about the terrible genocide that happened here, the land and resources stolen, and how so many of the treaties between the settlers and the indigenous people were violated by the colonialists. Overall for the European history, there is a ton of British and French influence here as well as Scottish and Irish. For example, pub culture is big here as well as playing traditional styles of Irish fiddle. There is also a large Acadian population here of French speakers who are distinct from the French speakers in Quebec, Canada. We also have Scottish history, and so many places especially in Cape Breton (in Nova Scotia) are now focusing on re-learning and re-teaching Gaelic to keep the language here alive.
"Spiritual" is a term much used these days when describing one's philosophies and perspectives without identifying as religious. How would you describe your devotional and metaphysical ways of thinking and practices in this modern world?
It’s tough to give a full answer to that, but basically we want to be as good as we can be while we exist on this world. That doesn’t mean we are perfect or that we never get angry or frustrated. We try to learn from our past mistakes, educate ourselves, be kind, compassionate, and open-minded. We are passionate about standing up for others and those who have no voice (animals, nature).
We think it’s important to acknowledge and think about how life is brutal and bleak, but also filled with beauty, love, and innocence.
It can be hard to find a balance some days, but we try our best to just exist as humans who aren’t sure exactly what we should or need to be doing. We think most people can relate to that in some way especially in the modern world.
How aware and interested are you of your ancestral roots in general? Are the people of Nova Scotia still much identifying with the "old countries", or is it something that is increasingly in the past, and just being "Canadian" is what matters to the youth of today?
It’s tough to say, it’s a mixed bag. There are many people, especially indigenous folks, who very much do not identify with the Western European-based “Canadian” identity, and rightfully so. Celebrations of Canada Day to many is a celebration of genocide and erasure. Some people do identify with their older ancestral European roots, some for reasons out of curiosity and just historical interests, which is fine, and some for more nefarious and nationalistic ideals. It really depends on the individual. Most people just feel Canadian might be easier to use as a label, and more relevant as many generations of their family have only known this land and culture. We are not that interested or invested personally in our own ancestral roots, and we label ourselves as Canadian because it’s straight forward. Myself, I am a refugee from the Yugoslavian civil war of the early 1990's and so I don’t really view myself as Canadian in the same way someone else might anyway.
You also play in a few metal bands of the death, thrash and black nature. What can you tell me of the other projects you two have, and the underground scene in your area in general?
The scene here is great and we have a ton of awesome bands. We hope to keep seeing it grow and there is a lot of talent here. As for me, we hope to get another Astral Path album out eventually!
I want to thank you for your time and this interview! What can you tell me of the plans for the band for the next year of 2022, and where do you see yourselves moving as people in the future?
Thank you for the interview! We appreciate it. We are currently just working on new songs for a third album, and just otherwise trying to survive.
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