I became first aware of the wonderful musical and aesthetic tastes of Zoé Zanias (real name Alison Lewis) about two years ago via the amazing channel HÖR Berlin (one of the only good platforms for DJs during the pandemic) which naturally led me to explore her projects and art more in general. With a clear presence in the city where everyone in the electronic music and club / DJ culture seems to go, namely Berlin, Zoé has had some life changes during the last months. Her art is however timeless and worthy of all the attention it has already (and not yet) received.
Hello Alison! How are you feeling on this day in late March of 2022?
I'm feeling OK! Been at home in Australia the last few weeks finishing up my latest release and preparing for playing live again.
You are originally from there, Australia (altho raised in South-East Asia), a country which has given us for example the amazing duo of Dead Can Dance, the gothic rock vibes of Nick Cave and the more recent "retro" sounds of Buzz Kull. In your youth, what led you to the post-punk, gothic and new wavy atmospheres present in your music today?
I couldn't have got there without the internet and a very cool aunt who had great taste in music. I was always into 'dark themes' as a kid, and had a fascination with death, and gravitated towards music that leant that way too. My aunt noticed I was listening to slightly more alternative bands like Placebo, AFI and A Perfect Circle and gave me a CD compilation of 80s post-punk and new wave that had a few classic goth bands on it. Something just resonated and I felt like I'd found my identity.
The discovery of Christian Death & Rozz Williams got me solidly into deathrock (and I mean... it's called DEATHrock... clearly right up my alley). This was right when mp3 downloads became a thing and once I got onto Soulseek and the option of browsing other users' collections I went into hyperdrive with music discovery. I also joined a few messageboards (deathrock.com was particularly good) and lurked for recommendations, and later when the music blogs became a thing I followed those to find obscure minimal synth and coldwave.
According to one interpretation, post-punk kinda went the organic way and the electronic way, forming many new subgenres which naturally just keep multiplying. I personally always hang in the balance between orchestral sounds, the distortion and rawness of punk and metal, and the vast possibilities of various synths. What would you say are your biggest influences considering these two soundscapes and groups of instruments, organic and synthetic?
I'm all about processing the organic into the synthetic, be it samples from nature or the sound of my own voice. I don't have the patience for the limitations of using too many 'real' instruments (but I'll sample them!) or even hardware and do everything within Ableton, so I'm very much in the electronic camp. If you mean influences as in other artists, then Grimes is right up there, having paved the way not only as a female solo producer but also with an inventive and unique approach to crafting pop songs using synths, samples and many layers of vocals. Fever Ray's first album also contributed a lot to my aesthetic endeavours.
One of the projects you have been involved with is Linea Aspera (with Ryan Ambridge). What can you tell me of its initial conception, its trials and tribulations along the way, and its present and future? Did you form the duo when you were studying in London?
I met Ryan while we were both studying in London, yes. I was studying archaeology at UCL and just thought being in a band would be fun. We didn't have particularly grand aspirations but the first tracks we posted on Soundcloud, and then a silly little video I made for Malarone alone in my room, went a little bit viral and suddenly we had quite a few opportunities arise. The hype was a bit much though and we were both too young to face that kind of pressure, so we parted ways until 2019, when the release of a compilation of rare tracks brought us together again and Josh Cheon from Dark Entries suggested playing a reunion show. We wanted to present some new material so started working on some, and within a few months the second album was born.
You also release music under your pseudonym Zanias. How would you say this obviously more personal material differs from your other projects?
Zanias has always just been where I channel the efforts that don't fit anywhere else. It's entirely mine so I'm a lot less restricted by anyone else's taste. Lately that means I'm trying out a lot of new techniques and sounds outside of the wavey underground. I got into emo / cloud rap and the ethereal instrumentals of producers like Clams Casino sent me in a whole new direction stylistically.
You possess a very haunting, beckoning and ethereal voice and style of singing. Where does it come from, and can you remember the age you realized you could actually perform as a singer? Have you had any formal training in singing?
When I first attended pre-school the teachers asked my mum what I like doing for fun, and she told them "she just likes to sing". I used to sing all the time. I think it's because I've always had issues with anxiety (probably the result of being born while my family was living in a warzone in Papua New Guinea) and in retrospect the singing was probably an act of self-soothing. As a teenager I'd belt out all my favourite songs alone in my room, with no idea that my sister and her friends could hear me in the room below. They said I was good but I didn't believe them. I also sang in the choir at school but the teacher there didn't take much notice of my voice because I wasn't a soprano, and the songs we sang were pretty lame anyway. When Linea Aspera first started I had no idea if my voice would work on a track. My hands were shaking when I first showed Ryan my idea for the song 'Preservation Bias' and was very relieved when he liked it.
I never received any proper training, but over the years I've worked hard on expanding what I'm capable of doing just by experimenting. I'm very inspired by Lisa Gerrard, Elizabeth Fraser and Fever Ray.
Performing live must have its liberating and cathartic qualities, but also moments of stage fright and uneasy butterflies. Is performing live something you usually love to do, or does your attitude towards it keep changing throughout the years, depending on other life-circumstances at a given moment?
I've mostly not felt nervous about gigs, unless they're particularly big or I'm particularly unprepared. Stage fright isn't something I've ever experienced. For many years I was comfortably enjoying gigs without any real issue, and mostly just found them really fun. What I've come to grapple with is that gigs now occasionally feel like very long and very boring chores. It's a bit fucked up and made me quite sad! It all started with my live set at Berghain in 2019. The anticipation and build-up for that show was immense, and the gig itself was really stressful because my gear was vibrating so much from the bass that everything was getting unplugged. I stepped off stage feeling this overwhelming emptiness.
Since then the emptiness has returned every now and then. It causes me to dissociate and observe the total absurdity of it all. I have to focus hard to get back 'into it'. I'm trying to just accept that this is probably part of playing so often for so many years. It's like my body just grew a tolerance to all that excitement and the drug doesn't hit the same way anymore.
You have also been running the Berlin-based label Fleisch. Looking at the history of the label now, has there been a clear developing market for the music you have been putting out, and which format has been more worthwhile, physical or digital?
I'm not sure how much the market really developed over the years, but our audience certainly expanded just through the organic process of more people knowing about us. I sort of feel like the EBM-techno thing peaked a few years ago. Digital is still by far the easier format to profit from, but vinyl for some reason makes a release feel more 'legitimate'. It's a mechanism for fandom to be expressed that I think has helped the label become more of a community. I see the same names buying every record we release on Bandcamp and that feels really nice.
Besides creating music, performing with your projects and releasing stuff by other artists, I imagine you have been playing a lot of clubs in Berlin during the years. Regarding many musical styles, all roads seem to lead there, but the thing that most people are interested in is of course: What does it take to make it there, or in the music business in general, if one aims to live by their art, in your personal experience?
A combination of luck, the ability to not give up when nothing seems to be working, getting to know the right people and some form of financial safety net. That last one is so shitty to have to mention, but I fear it's not mentioned enough for people to realistically understand how hard it is to 'make it' without a backup. I got really lucky with Linea Aspera having such a successful first release, and then inherited some cash to keep me going during my first days in Berlin. Without that I'd not have been able to dedicate the necessary time to touring (which, when you first start out, isn't actually very profitable). It's super unfair but it's the reality. Making music is expensive at first and only becomes a viable way to make a living after a lot of resources have been sunk into it, or when someone else has been willing to provide those resources for you - e.g. a big label.
This is why I believe so much in a universal basic income. Everyone has the right to pursue something that isn't immediately profitable. The world doesn't need more bullshit jobs, it needs more art!
One avenue or platform already mentioned in the beginning of this interview is HÖR Berlin, which gave (and continues to give) artists a chance to reach thousands of people during the pandemic. What other way or avenues are you most grateful for during the pandemic considering your own livelihood?
Bandcamp and Patreon are what kept me going. Both of those platforms provide the most direct stream of revenue from audience to artist. What I love about both of them is that they don't demand anything more than the job description I already signed up for: I just have to make music, and put it out there. No extra bullshit. Plus their payments systems are totally transparent and they don't take a huge cut.
How would you describe the electronic music scene (in which you operate) in general, is it full of competition and pushing other artists down the ladder, or is it mostly positively communal and full of solidarity?
It's both of those things at the same time. I consider the positive side to be more of a friendship circle than a scene (with artists like Reka, Phase Fatale, Pablo Bozzi, Unhuman, Operant, etc - we're a tight crew), while the negative side exposes itself in the wider circle where people don't know each other so well. I don't think it's so much a case of actively pushing each other down, but one can definitely feel a little left out and ignored if you're not in the clique.
One negative aspect of certain musical genres and scenes you are also attracted by is for example industrial music, a culture which is most likely similar to styles like metal and neofolk when it comes to the amount of right wing and bigoted attitudes among the artists and fans. Have you noticed any change in the waning and waxing of these negative forces during the years, in the music scenes you operate in?
I feel like in my own little echo chamber people are growing more conscious and sensitive as time goes by. I honestly never come across actual right wing or bigoted people in real life (I don't go out much, and when I do it's usually to queer Berlin spaces so maybe that explains it...). I'm grateful for that. I do feel like humanity is moving forwards, even when things appear to be going backwards. It's a chaotic form of progress.
Would you say you are a spiritual person? And if so, out of the numerous systems, religions and paths of self-improvement and discovery available to people in these modern times, what has been the most interesting or beneficial to you? What are your personal favourite methods of self-exploration, such as meditation and psychedelics?
I'm spiritual in the sense that I'm very philosophical and open minded about the nature of reality, but not so open that my brain falls out. I'm very into psychedelics and have had some pretty insane experiences on those that have shaped a worldview that's equally as influenced by science as it is by philosophy. I've always sought to understand the human mind and our behaviour, so I read a lot about psychology, neuroscience and cognitive science, which in turn allows me to better understand myself.
I also practice meditation and am a big believer in mindfulness, but psychedelics win out as the most efficient method of self-exploration for me.
As you have been travelling and living in awesome places as a musician (and beyond), what is your ideal place to live? Personally I appreciate the safety nets provided by the social democracy of my native Finland, but when it comes to culture and climate, I'd rather live in Malta or similar :)
I've always felt like Finland gets a lot more right than most other countries! Particularly in terms of social support. One of my best friends at school was Finnish so I also learned at a young age that the
chocolate from there is great too..
My ideal place to live would be sparsely populated and not too cold, by an ocean with good surf, and with a house far enough from the water that the inevitable sealevel rise from climate change won't destroy it. I'd just also really love to have friends nearby, and that's where most places like this would fall short.
Besides music, what are the works of art that have influenced you the most, if you consider the person you have become? In the realms of for example cinema and literature, which are the pieces you keep coming back to, or reflect upon most often?
I tend to forget the things that influence me quite quickly, so I'll mention more recent additions first: the most inspirational film I watched in recent years was Mandy. I'm a little obsessed with it. I was also really touched by the series Devs because of its deterministic philosophy which I've been contemplating a lot due to the increasing sense that we lack free will.
I recently read a book called 'Connections: A story of human feeling' by Karl Desseiroth which is about the neuroscience of emotions and it's also really beautifully written, and I lifted some words from it to use as lyrics on my latest release because it provided some mind-blowing revelations about the nature of mental illness.
I'm also going to be very predictable here and mention Dune, the book and both films. Aesthetically for its futuristic flowiness and also for the fact that the spice is so obviously a psychedelic substance!
A funny one that just came to mind, that really inspired me with regard to the curation of nightlife, was Party Monster. I watched it as a teenager and just fell in love with the idea of freaks creating their own little fantasy world of music and drugs. It sounds really silly when I type it out but as a lonely teenager it really gave me hope to find my 'tribe' and create my own little world one day.
Thank you very much for this awesome opportunity to interview you! What are your plans for the rest of this year of 2022?
Thanks for the cool questions!
I'll be doing a lot of touring and then moving back to Australia at the end of the year to study psychology.
I've been working on 3 separate Zanias releases so I'll hopefully be putting at least one of those out, and will also be making a bunch of new videos. No rest for the wicked!