Ever since the digital revolution in music consumption, especially after the streaming platforms emerged, there has been a gradual decline of the market when it comes to selling music on the physical format. Record stores have been going out business in a steady pace, and the CD's we once so enthusiastically collected are lying unused in shelves. However, when it comes to underground music scenes, against all expectations, there has been a gradual increase in the demand for cassette tapes. From obscure electronic music and harsh noise to extreme punk and metal, record labels focusing especially on tapes have been emerging rapidly around the world. One of these labels, which I am personally in contact with, is Realm & Ritual, a label specializing in the genres of dungeon synth and black metal, with an attitude against fascism, racism and other sorts of bigotry.
Hey Shawn! How are you feeling on this day in December of 2021?
Hey Antti, I am doing well.
I know you are involved in underground music yourself as a vocalist of a band, but I would like to hear more about the different projects you have been working on during the years. Are there a lot of underground music activity in the area of Boston where you reside?
The long story here is that I became involved with local music playing in indie / punk bands when I was a teenager growing up an hour outside of Boston. There was nowhere for younger bands to play so I started booking shows at a local church hall when I was 15. We played there and at whatever shitty VFW hall would let a bunch of teenagers rent it out.
When I was in my early twenties, I was still booking shows (at the old church hall and the basement of my apartment) and ran a small label / blog called Mass Recovery. I promoted shows through Myspace at the time which somehow led me to booking a few regional US tours for a German emo band, which was a pretty important experience for me especially when I wasn’t sure about much else in my life at the time.
In the years since, I’ve moved to Boston, started a career in education, got into metal and dungeon synth, started and stopped writing a column about Magic: The Gathering, joined my current sludge / drone band Lunar Ark, and then of course started Realm and Ritual.
I’m just about to release my 125th tape through Realm and Ritual.
In terms of the music scene in Boston, there is definitely a lot of stuff going on, especially if you have eclectic tastes. I try to make it out to shows as much as I can but am somewhat disconnected these days from the house show scene (or what’s left of it).
How did you come in contact with the sounds of the underground in the first place, especially the styles your label focuses on, dungeon synth and black metal? Is your fascination with these styles purely audiovisual, or are there other factors as well?
As I mentioned earlier, I grew up in a totally separate scene and while I appreciated skramz / hardcore stuff, it wasn’t until 2016 / 2017 that I really got into black metal (which eventually led me to dungeon synth). I loved the otherworldly sound, the dark aesthetic, the suffocating atmospheres, the raw production, and the shrieking vocal styles. I started following all of the releases from Halo of Flies, Folkvangr, and DeathKvlt and bought every tape and record I could find. From there, I went backward and listened to some the BM classics - Ulver, Enslaved, and Darkthrone - and then branched out into red and anarchist black metal, DSBM, atmo-black, raw, you name it - I loved so much of what I heard.
I got into dungeon synth a bit afterward after following Dark Age Productions, Ancient Meadow, Gondolin, and HDK. I got the chance to vend at Northeast Dungeon Siege in 2019 where I really became invested in the community of incredible artists from around the world. Seeing DS performed live made everything click for me in a way that it hadn’t before. I started picking up as many DS tapes as I could to get a sense of the past and present of the genre. I am running out of shelf space in my apartment at this point but really love the genre and community.
When we as teenagers were making music, we recorded demos using one mic and the two-deck tape recorder, switching tapes and recording a second "track" with the first one in the background, and so on gradually adding sound yet making the end result sound more inaudible. Or if we were lucky we had a four-tracker and maybe two mics. But this was of course the reason for the obscure and mystical lo-fi sound of the nineties, which is much imitated today via digital means. What do you think attracts you personally in the lo-fi sound of music in general, as opposed to something with a good production?
There is a lot to appreciate about lo-fi production, for me I think it boils down to a sense of honesty and the sound textures produced. Lo-fi recordings conjure up images of basements and bedrooms, of people pouring out their hearts on 4-track recorders. Lo-fi production is not burdened by access to a professional studio or the money required to enter such a place.
I also think in a lot of cases that raw and noisy production often enhances the atmosphere of a recording, encasing the sound in a shroud of mystery, or ice, or noise, or whatever the music calls for in that instance.
I would push back that lo-fi is at odds with “good production” as I’ve heard some incredible lo-fi records that were mixed well and have heard plenty of higher-fidelity records that sound sterile and slick in a way that is totally unenjoyable and soulless.
In my childhood and teens, when it comes to records, the physical copy used to be something really special with its cover art, booklet and all that visual information a kid loves to explore, not to mention the crackling sounds of the tape recorder and the vinyl player. When it comes to releasing music, how did you decide to work with the tape format in the beginning, instead of vinyl or CD?
I love cassettes. I grew up on the cusp of CDs replacing cassettes but still have memories of recording tapes off the radio and having friends dub me albums that I wasn’t allowed to buy. I am nostalgic for that time but also have a genuine appreciation for the aesthetics of tapes, their imperfect sound, and the affordability of tapes vs. other media. I love vinyl but it is prohibitively expensive and with production times increasing to upwards of a year now, it is not practical to release everything I want to on vinyl. CDs are fine, I actually have begun to collect them again in certain instances, but I don’t have the same connection to them.
For example DJ's have been constantly printing vinyl, and in theory this would also make a cheap option for anyone releasing records with short running times. So how do you explain the emergence and popularity of the tape in the underground musical circles, since it is almost like the VHS-tape making a sudden comeback, which seems pretty absurd?
In terms of emergence, with a lot of underground music scenes - noise and punk come to mind - tapes never really went away. In any case, they are certainly a lot more popular than they were even a few years ago. I think people crave physical media and want some way to interact with music in a way that is tactile and deliberate. There is something ritualistic in opening up a record or tape, putting it in the player, and sitting and reading the insert. I think digital music can certainly be enjoyed but it doesn’t have the same intentionality.
It’s funny you mentioned VHS because I also collect those as well. For me, it’s primarily about nostalgia, I remember going into the local video store and perusing the shelves for a tape to bring home and watch. I like blu-ray / DVD and watch a lot of stuff on streaming services, but I still appreciate the way VHS looks on the screen.
You started to release music with Realm & Ritual in 2018. Have you seen any change in the demand for tapes from those times? Since you have also released other formats as well, such as vinyl and shirts, do you plan on taking the releases even more to those or other formats, or will the label stay mainly focused in tapes in the future as well?
I have definitely seen an increase in demand for tapes as the label has grown and made its way to more listeners. I have one vinyl release in pre-order right now - it’s been in production for 9 months and was done as a co-release with a European label. I am really looking forward to holding them in my hands but definitely have felt frustrated by the many delays in this process. In terms of shirts, I have done two so far, both printed by Forrest Passage Printing and had a really good experience with the printer. They sell reasonably well and I’m definitely willing to do more in the future.
As of right now, the plan for the label is to primarily release tapes but I’m open to doing more vinyl - especially if and when production times go down.
Do you have a particular release or genre which has sold clearly more than the others, or perhaps had the best feedback or reviews, or has the demand and response been pretty equal between all the releases?
I have a pretty even split between DS and BM releases at this time. I’m more entrenched in the DS community with me vending at festivals and being a part of multiple groups online but think that generally there are more people out there who listen to BM than DS. In terms of releases that have sold well, I’ve done slightly larger runs of tapes by Castlerock, Vandalorum, Griefspell (formerly Lunacy), and Ruohtta that have all sold out. I do have a lot of folks that buy all the tapes I put out which is much appreciated. I’m glad that there are people who dig the label and trust my curation.
Your label has a clear attitude towards fascism, racism and other forms of intolerance, which is unfortunately the less common attitude among the people who usually like the styles your label releases. In my experience, the typical dungeon synth loving black metal head either has opinions which go all over the place, but they usually have no problems hanging out with their radical right wing friends, and very often they are openly fascist-leaning themselves. Do you agree with my assessment, or have you seen a different phenomenon developing?
I am reluctant to broadly paint folks in DS and BM with a wide brush regarding this matter as there are a lot of factors in play. I am appreciative that in recent years, the RABM movement has gained traction and a good portion of the community actively seeks to support like-minded musicians while avoiding artists that have fascist ties or espouse homophobic, transphobic, racist, or sexist viewpoints. Having said that, there is actual work involved in deplatforming right-wing idiots and researching artists to avoid supporting shitty ideologies (financially or otherwise). I am appreciative of groups like Is it Fash: The Musical that act as a directory for avoiding sketchy stuff and groups like “The People’s Black Metal Necro Posting” which provides a space for people to share recommendations and promote like-minded musicians.
I think the biggest challenge is getting people who aren’t actively political on-board with deplatforming problematic artists. I know there is a contingent of people who try to separate the art from the artist, who don’t want to talk about politics everytime the discussion of music is brought up. While I can sympathize to a point - modern life under capitalism is exhausting and sometimes you just want to listen to some riffs - I don’t think it’s possible to truly separate art and artist.
Music isn’t made in a vacuum and it’s important to me that I don’t support and promote people that actively wish harm upon people I care about.
Besides releasing music which moves in circles where fascism and bigotry is not appreciated, do you engage in any other type of political or social activism? What do you think are the most effective ways of educating people and turning heads?
My day job involves working with folks with disabilities to provide vocational training and resources. I want to believe that the work I do with this community is valuable in helping them access meaningful work. I honestly struggle with determining the best way to engage in political activism. I do my best to have open conversations with people I believe are arguing in good faith and do my best to avoid right wing trolls.
Where do you draw the line with protesting against the freedom of speech of those political ideologies which usually would like to limit the freedom of speech of everybody who doesn't agree with them, so you won't be accused of being a voice-suppressing fascist yourself? I personally tend to be of the opinion of "don't give them freedom because they're not gonna give you yours".
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. I think the government does have a role in protecting folks from hate speech but for the most part I think people should be able to say what they want to. If you say something bigoted and shitty, don’t expect to do so without repercussions.
In retrospect, how did you evolve to have liberal and anti-bigoted views? Do you think it is something that comes from your upbringing or the place where you grew up, or simply a great book you read or a movie you saw at some point, or something else..?
I’m sure my views developed from a combination of my upbringing, education, personal experience, and relationships. There’s not a specific “moment of clarity” I can point to as the starting point for my views now. Marxist theory definitely has informed the way I look at the world.
OK, I want to thank you very much for this interview! What else does the future hold for the label, and you other projects in life?
In terms of the label, I’m releasing a 27-track compilation (digital and double-cassette) called Revolt & Regicide on December 17th. All proceeds from the compilation will be donated to GiveDirectly, a charity that assists people living in poverty by providing unconditional cash transfers.
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