When it comes to examples in history about the cooperative spirit of people to work together for the benefit of the community without the need for too many bosses or policing, many usually think of periods like the Revolutionary Catalonia or the Zapatistas of Mexico. There has been however an ongoing experiment of self-governance or autonomy in northeastern Syria called Rojava, a name which is recognized by many from the news, but too few people are actually familiar with the history and present happenings of this society. While related to the larger geo-cultural area known as Kurdistan, which spans to the territories of Syria, Iraq, Iran and Turkey, the relation between these mostly Kurdish areas in the region are not always perfect. Some factions want to see this as an independent nation state, while others want to continue the greater autonomy within these boundaries. As numerous Kurds continue to migrate to Europe, I wanted to ask a few questions on this matter from a person behind the Youtube-channel Everything About Kurdistan.
Hey, how are you feeling on this day in late December 2021? Where are you writing this from?
Hello there, I’m just fine, thanks for asking. Actually I rather keep my exact location undisclosed because of personal reasons but I’m writing from Sweden.
I discovered your Youtube-channel and Instagram while searching for more information about the current happenings in Kurdistan. Do you think the majority of Kurdish people want the world to see the reality of their situation, or do many want keep things private as well?
Without doubt, most people want the world to see their situation, but sometimes people can think otherwise when looking at our situation. The main reason for this is that many Kurds are afraid. We have over 20 million people in Turkish-occupied Kurdistan who are literally afraid of saying anything due to physical oppression by the means of torture, imprisonment and murder. Simultaneously it’s even worse in Iranian-occupied Kurdistan where the same methods are being used, but where the country is under total shutdown from the outer world, making the situation much less reported to the world, for the Kurds there.
The Kurdistan Worker's Party or PKK and it's leader Abdullah Öcalan were initially seen as terrorists by the majority of western countries, and at first they sought the foundation of an independent Kurdistan. However, Öcalan became increasingly interested in anarchist thought, mostly through the writings of Murray Bookchin, and his later ideology of democratic confederalism is actually practiced in some parts of the greater Kurdistan, at least in Rojava, am I correct?
If we talk about democratic confederalism being practiced in an actual state, then Rojava is the perfect example. It is also practiced in some areas around Rojhelat (Iranian-occupied Kurdistan) where PJAK is active. But that area isn’t formed in an actual state or self-governing autonomy in any way. The PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan has also expressed the importance of implementing the democratic confederalism ideology in all four parts of Kurdistan.
What can you tell us about the Rojava-Kurdistan relations in general, as there are many political differences?
There are huge differences. If we look at it in a traditional left-right ideology line then Rojava is based very far on the left side while the KRG-government who rules Bashur (Iraqi-occupied Kurdistan) is more of a conservative right-movement. So ideologically and in the terms of what way Greater Kurdistan should be ruled, Rojava and Bashur are far from each other. This is also shown in the diplomatic climate that exists between the different parts with other parts around the area. For example, the KRG-government have close ties with Erdogan and the AKP-government in Turkey. This is based on several factors, but there is no doubt that one of them is that both parts belongs to the right conservative area on the political line. The same thing goes for Rojava and HDP where both belongs to the left part of the same line.
In recent years, many western political specialists such as the diplomat Carne Ross have seen Rojava as a great example of anarchism in action, but is this terminology something the people of Rojava actually agree with? How would someone designing the policies of Rojava describe the system?
I’m not really sure if the definition of anarchism is the right word to define Rojava and I certainly don’t think that the people of Rojava would agree to this either. First of all, most people in Rojava are basically happy that they got rid of the Assad government. The dictatorship of Assad was in every single part much much worse than the current system in Rojava. When getting rid of the oppression and system that existed during Assad, the people are probably willing to accept a lot in it’s replacement.
This means that people don’t necessarily agree to the system, but tolerate it since they got an experience of something being much much worse. However, on the other hand, I think that there is a lot of people agreeing to the system as well and Rojava have set up a very specific system of school where apoism, jineology and democratic confederalism is taught to everyone in order for people to actually understand all of it.
Öcalan also became increasingly supportive of womens' rights, and today many are familiar with the pictures of the charismatic women soldiers of the YPJ. How supported actually are these female forces, and the empowerment of women in general, across greater Kurdistan?
To understand the answer it is important to understand the social situation in and around Kurdistan. Greater Kurdistan is located in Middle East, an geographical area that has been influenced by patriarchal structures for thousands of years. These patriarchal norms have been set in both traditions and the culture of the Kurds in different ways, but at the same time, the Kurds have managed to start this unique revolution of women which still have received it’s broad support among Kurds. Of course, there is that small minority who stands against it, but the bigger majority is as I said in support of this movement.
Rojava has been on the frontlines in the battle against Daesh, but there is also guerrilla activity against Turkey in the Qandil Mountains. Can you enlighten us in the different areas of conflict in Kurdistan?
There are several conflicts in each parts of Kurdistan. If we start with Bakur (Turkish-occupied Kurdistan) we have the very long going confict between the PKK and the Turkish State. In the mid 70's, the Turkish state had already committed several genocides against the Kurds, not at least the Diyarbakir massacre, the Zilan massacre, the Dersim genocide, the Maras massacre etc. During the 70's, the Turkish state knew that they couldn’t keep up with these massacres without eventually being blamed for it. As the PKK was formed and started a revolutionary freedom struggle against the Turkish state in the mid 80's, the Turkish state saw this as perfect chance to form themselves a Kurdish party to blame their massacres and genocides on. Since then, Turkey has actively been trying to put PKK under a state where the world looks at these freedom fighters as nothing else but terrorists. Out of the 50 countries in the world recognizing PKK as terrorists, 38 of them has a direct connection to Turkey in the means of business or diplomacy relations. A few others are direct enemies of the Kurds and others link to Turkey through NATO or the European Union.
Furthermore, history is full of events where Turkey accuses PKK for actions they never committed but where the denial from PKK themselves never are highlighted while the accusation from a NATO state are much more taken seriously. I’m not in any way claiming that PKK are perfect or free from any mistakes through history, but they have been treated in a way that they for sure do not deserve and it is all due to the political power that Turkey has due to it’s geographical, economic and military power in the world stage. The PKK struggle has throughout the years reached several parts of Kurdistan, they are active in the Qandil Mountains in Bashur (Iraqi-occupied Kurdistan), active in Rojava as we know it and also in the mountains of Rojhelat (Iranian-occupied Kurdistan) under the command of PJAK. This is leading to Turkey’s intervention into other countries as well which has given PKK a lot of criticism from other Kurds. But I wonder how people can even dare to criticize PKK who probably have the most active campaign of freedom for the Kurds right now, rather than criticizing the enemies and their actions against PKK and the Kurdish resistance in all of Kurdistan.
After the U.S. pulled it's troops from Syria, ISIL has somewhat begun to gain hold again. What do you think of the situation right now?
It is obvious what a threat Turkey is playing. It was obvious how they aided and supported ISIS during it’s reign in Syria and Iraq. However as the Islamic State was defeated, they put all their energy on another organization in Syria, this time the FSA (Free Syrian Army). At this point, they have occupied several areas in Rojava, such as Afrin, Sere Kaniye and Gri Spi. People are being killed and tortured and children are being Arabized and turkificated, the world is just looking without having any guts to stand against Turkey’s actions in the area.
There have been many unrests and frustrations in Kurdistan lately, and numerous refugees are coming to Europe. Nobody wants leave their homes, but how do you view this as someone based in Sweden?
I look at it as a big problem. Most of these refuges have recently come from Bashur (Iraqi-occupied Kurdistan) which is supposed to be the most safe and well working part of Kurdistan. This is, however, proof that KRG has big internal problems. As a Kurd living in Sweden, it is my duty to look at the different parts of Kurdistan and see their good sides and their not so well working sides. If I didn’t highlight the bad sides, we would never improve and develop. I look at the flaws in both Rojava and Bashur and try to highlight them so that we perhaps can move towards a better society and an example to the rest of the Middle East. When we talk about Bashur, we see big problems with corruption, employment and nepotism. These are areas that the government of Kurdistan has to work with immediately, otherwise KRG is destined to fall sooner or later.
Thank you for this short but informative update! How do you see the next year of 2022
unfolding?
2022 will probably not change a lot for the Kurds, if we can have any hopes, I rather look at 2023 as a possible chance for the Kurds to do something. Rumors have been in the air about the abolishment of the so-called Lausanne agreement who supposedly only is a 100-year long deal (1923-2023). If there is any truth behind this, then officially the state of Turkey, Syria and Iraq as we know it, are abolished that year.
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